From Where I Sit: Season 2, Episode 11 With Elisabeth Sailer, Chief Commercial Officer, LaGuardia Gateway Partners, Transcript

Tom McGee:

Welcome to From Where I Sit, the podcast where we explore the forces shaping America's built economy. I'm your host, Tom McGee, president and CEO of ICSC. In discussion with prominent leaders and innovators, we cut through the noise to explore the trends and innovations influencing the future of our communities.

As a frequent traveler, as I know many of our listeners are, I'm pleased to welcome someone who is a key player in airport innovation, Elisabeth Sailer, Chief Commercial Officer for LaGuardia Gateway Partners. Elisabeth leads the commercial strategy for Terminal B at New York City's LaGuardia International Airport. In this role, she works closely with commercial partners and oversees revenue development, guest experience, and marketing. She brings over 20 years of international experience in airport management, commercial revenue growth, and business development, with a long-standing tenure at Munich Airport Group, including her most recent prior role as Chief Commercial Officer of the new Terminal A at Newark Liberty International Airport. With an emphasis on connecting both global and local communities, she's been involved in the redevelopment and operation of terminals in major airports, redefining the passenger experience and building relationships across airlines, operators, developers, and partners. Elisabeth is uniquely positioned to help us understand a transportation environment that connects people, cultures, and economies. Elisabeth, welcome to the show.

Elisabeth Sailer:

Thank you, Tom. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the nice intro.

Tom:

You're welcome. And as I mentioned, I am a frequent traveler and a frequent traveler in the two terminals that you have been actively involved with, Terminal B at LaGuardia that you oversee now as the Chief Commercial Officer and Newark’s new Terminal A. Let's just start at the most basic level, just for our listeners to get a sense of the scope of your role. How would you describe the role as Chief Commercial Officer for LaGuardia Terminal B?

Elisabeth:

If I have to describe it in a very in very short words, I would say my job really allows me to shape the image, the face, the business card of an airport, because it's actually the very visible part that passengers see. From the whole guest experience, how they travel through the building, to these service offerings, retail, food and beverage services that we offer. So in that's what always has drawn me to this job, really, is because you're part of developing this vision of what it can be, what people actually see. Because my colleagues in operation, they work very hard. It's very difficult to have a smooth, seamless process, but nobody pats them on the back when your luggage actually arrives. But for in the commercial element, you can actually touch people's emotions. You can see people enjoying themselves. And this is really at the core what the job is about. Of course we also want to make a little bit of revenue around it.

Tom:

Well, there's such an alignment between what you do on a daily basis and what many of our members do that own and manage shopping centers and occupy them. Terminal B at LaGuardia is award-winning, best in class. It's just a wonderful, wonderful experience. So congratulations to you. Let's just say I'm a traveler. I land in LaGuardia, or I'm flying out of LaGuardia, I'm in Terminal B. What would you like that traveler to walk away with? What impression do you want them to walk away with?

Elisabeth:

I see them walk away with—and that's also feedback that our team is getting—that once you enter the building you feel a very specific atmosphere. It's a very human vibe, if I might call it like that, because the focus of La Guardia has always been already in the design and also now in the operation has always been this hospitality mindset welcoming people at the airport. I know sometimes, you know, you have to go through an airport, you don't have a lead, you don't have a choice, right? In a shopping center you go there because you want to go there or you have to do something there. At an airport, you usually don't have the choice. You might be if you're lucky, you can choose the terminal, the airport you're going through, but usually you are there for a different reason. But this hospitality aspect of our team I think is something very specific. And even if you can't really make it visible. We know that people can feel it and people can experience it. And this is the biggest compliment I think our team walks away with every day.

Tom:

It's a hard job because when people are in airports, there is a whole range of emotions that they can experience, both from frustration about flights being delayed to stress about meeting the next day on time or what have you. So the offerings that you have there really contribute to kind of easing some of those pressures and feelings they may have. I've heard you say you previously described airports as ecosystems rather than assets. And describe that. What do you mean by that as an ecosystem versus an asset? What's the phrase ecosystem mean to you?

Elisabeth:

Honestly, I've always seen it rather as an ecosystem than an asset. That's something I learned later. So when I joined my first job, and I've always been in aviation, so this is where I grew up also professionally. And you always talk about an airport city, you talk about an airport family, you talk about the airport community, because there's so many stakeholders that are being involved. It's a place with a million different jobs from architects to chefs to airline employees, to retailers, to all those different types of people. And they all come together in in their own little city, in their own little world. Asset for me, it came later on in my career, when you start talking about the financial aspects around it, or when it becomes more transactional, like when you're talking in the New York City environment, in the PPP environment. This is when it became an asset to me. But if you really take a closer look, airports are like little cities and that's where this ecosystem element came from. And this is actually  how I got introduced to the industry to look at it that way.

Tom:

How did you get introduced to the industry? Just out of curiosity. So you made reference to that a few times. Did you always want to work in the airport industry? How did that happen?

Elisabeth:

Honestly, I have no idea anymore. I know that I wanted to work internationally. And then I learned that nothing is as stable and as solid and as local as an airport because it is where it is, right? So I just learned to work internationally when I started, you know, working in international business development, going where my former employer was also going for management contracts and consulting projects at other airports. So I don't know how I got there anymore. It's not an internship, it was an internship. But what I know is that once you're in aviation, it's very hard to leave. It's a very tight industry, it's a very close industry. You often meet people in different positions throughout your career. So it's surprisingly small despite it being like this global world spanning network of airports. But there are only very few people who are actually circulating around. And airports are just a unique platform, you know, it's just this very unique environment that you're in. And I think that makes it so hard for many people to actually believe it because it's just a great place to work.

Tom:

Yeah, and there's a certain specialization and complexity that comes with it that probably lends itself to that close network. You described airports as a city, which they are, particularly airports like LaGuardia and Newark, which are major airports. They're a complex city because in a city you often have citizens that live there for a period of time. And airports, every day the folks that are in that airport change. And so creating that experience from the familiarity that connects them back to both the local place that the airport's at, perhaps where they're from as well. How did you determine or when did you identify that building a commercial environment within an airport was so important to kind of the passenger experience? When did that click for you?

Elisabeth:

Aviation in general is very heavily regulated. You know, you got, especially on the aviation side, there's so many regulations. You got the FAA, you got the TSA, you got certain overarching regulations that you have to follow. The non-aeronautical or the commercial side of it is the place where you have more freedom as an airport operator, where you're not that strictly regulated, where you can try things, where you can bring in innovation, where you can bring in new partners. So it's a little bit more of the flexible side. So I've learned very early on that being in that non-aeronautical side, and I don't like it so much because I don't like to be the non of something else. So that's why I prefer to say the commercial side, because actually you can play a little bit more, you can test a little bit more. And as I said earlier, it's also very visible to the passenger. When I transitioned from my more local operational job to the actual consulting role, this was also always the part where airports had the most questions because this was the leverage that they had to actually explore new partnerships, to explore working with brands. So it was also from a consulting side, was always the topic where airports were really interested in learning more and growing their business because this was the leverage that they had. And this then confirmed me to continue pursuing this path because I saw the value that it can actually bring to an airport or also even to a whole region. Because you know, if you got a good offer, if you got a smooth process, people actually decide on where they want to travel through, right? Especially in New York, where you have three airports to choose from. And yes, price is the determining factor but people also choose the experience where they know they have a reliable, good experience, where they know they have their favorite restaurants that they can go to, where they know they don't stand in line for a very long time. On the international side, I can choose today if I fly through Denver, through Houston, through Chicago, if I'm on a United flight. So I probably pick the one, if the price is the same, where it gives me the best experience. And that's the same is true for I look to the Middle East, Abu Dhabi, Doha, Dubai. It doesn't really matter if you travel to one of those hubs, but the experience is what people base their decision on. So it becomes very relevant for airports to invest in the experience side and become the preferred airport or transfer hub for their passengers.

Tom:

It's interesting as you walk through the airports. And I, as a frequent traveler, I'm thinking about each of those airports and kind of the experience in each of them. But your point's well taken because having a major airport is an economic differentiator for a region or for a city. I mean, it really does drive a lot of economic growth. Going back to this experience of being in a terminal, waiting for your flight, I would presume that from a revenue perspective that shoppers spend more time on food and beverage in a terminal than they do on product. What's the typical breakdown of how travelers spend their dollars within a terminal?

Elisabeth:

So it really depends what type of terminal it is. And that's why it's also so important to get to know your passenger and to regularly check what they're looking for. But the big difference is, for example, between a domestic terminal and an international terminal where you have a very big duty free share. And you can't really compare those two worlds with each other. So in a domestic terminal, you're right, the spend on food and beverage is generally higher than on than on retail. In an international environment where you have 60%, 70%, 80% transfer passengers who buy duty free, it's a completely different game. The way we look at it is usually through spend per enplanement. So this is how much money, how much revenue do we generate per enplaned passenger? That's like the average metrics that we're using in the airport world. And this can be completely different across different types of terminals, different airports, different world regions, depends a lot also on how much customs you have to pay in certain areas, traveling to somewhere else. And it also depends very heavily on the traveler. So who is spending, how much is the American passenger spending versus the Chinese passenger versus somebody from Europe. So it's really interesting once you dive into the status and understanding this is crucial to keep your program fresh, to keep it current and that's also the challenge on the other hand, because you need to have the flexibility to adapt to changes in traffic, to changes in your passenger profile, and so on and so forth.

Tom:

That makes perfect sense as you walk through it in international. You're going to have a lot of folks that are going to purchase things versus a domestic terminal. And I would think both Terminal B and Terminal A are more domestic in travel. What are you learning about the consumer today as they traveling through Terminal B at LaGuardia, you're getting folks from all across the United States in that terminal and any day of the week? Have you noticed any change in behavior or spending habits or something unique in the last couple of months versus what you might have observed a year ago?

Elisabeth:

Maybe not in that short time frame, especially in a domestic terminal where the passenger demographic is much more homogeneous than it would be in an international terminal. I mean COVID made a lot of changes in terms of convenience, the request for convenience, the request for touchless service. So these are operational impacts that we were seeing. I think staying close to this is definitely key. And, you know, to also anticipate, you know, everybody's talking about millennials and Gen Z and how they buy and how they shop and what do they want at the airport. So that's actually something we are at the moment working through because La Guardia Terminal B is also very unique. We have a lot of very interesting, very elevated lounge experiences. We just opened a Capital One lounge about two months ago, which is a hybrid space between a restaurant and a lounge. So you get free access with your credit card. But also if you are a regular traveler who doesn't have the credit card, you can just use the space as a restaurant. So curating those experiences is something we have put a lot of thought into and we can also see how this shapes our passenger profile. Because, you know, if people know that they can spend time at the airport in a way that they like to. So they can choose, do I want to go to this nice restaurant or do I just want to work in somewhere or do I want to have the lounge experience. So we are seeing ourselves as the curator of that type of space. Even if it's, you know, not the traditional restaurant, even if it's not the traditional airline lounge. And the question that we are kicking around at the moment is really how do we put value on this because the classic spend per enplanement doesn't work in this kind of setup, right? But still it's a very nice atmosphere, which also helps create our brand and curate our brand. But really assessing how this works and what the right balance is something we are actually working through at the moment. And it's a very interesting conversation we're having.

Tom:

So many analogies to that in a shopping center environment. You know, when you're talking about clubs and that elevated experience, that's really about experiential retail, touchless screens and cashierless checkout. It's very prominent in airports now to order your food off an iPad and/or check out to scan yourself without a cashier. Are there things that you see in the airport environment that you think a shopping center or traditional retailers should think to adopt or that you see as kind of things that will morph their way into the broader retail environment?

Elisabeth:

I think this approach of experience is definitely something that some more traditional shopping centers could embrace, providing the space for a brand to actually showcase themselves. We still see that not enough. I mean, I'm a bit spoiled here in New York City because you're walking through the city and you see those experiences pop up on Fifth Avenue or and where all of a sudden the queue goes all around the block just for a for a lip gloss from you know, but that's very interesting. I think we are exploring how to do this more and provide this platform for brands to actually present themselves and address a very specific audience because the audience that airports usually have are very well defined. So if you are a brand and you know exactly who you want to talk to, airports I believe are the perfect environment to do so because you have a very targeted approach to your target group. Shopping centers are a bit broader, but I think there's still opportunity to explore this a little bit more. Same as New York City, we're all a little bit spoiled because so much is happening here, but translating this into a mall environment would definitely be a differentiator in my opinion.

Tom:

Yeah, that pop up experience or that pop-up retailer. That makes perfect sense for an airport too. That opportunity to have a differentiated experience for a short period of time. I want to ask you two specific questions and then transition into a different area. Terminal B at LaGuardia, what are you most proud of?

Elisabeth:

Very proud to be part of this team. I mean, I was not here doing the construction, but I was always observing, of course, since I was kind of the competition, was always observing what was happening here because LaGuardia Terminal B really is a disruptor in our industry. I think what has happened here was the first time it really happened in the U.S. to approach terminal environment with that kind of attention to detail, with that level of vision. So I'm very proud that I'm trusted now to join that team who developed that and, you know, continue driving this aspiration forward. Because of course we want to stay relevant. I mean, there are two more big terminals opening right now here in New York City. Pot Authority is the owner of all the airports. Pot Authority is really pushing this change. And all of the nation is kind of now looking to New York to see what what's happening there. So being able to be part of this group who drove this is great.

Tom:

Thank you for that. And you should be proud. The phrase “transformation” is often overused, but what happened at LaGuardia was a complete transformation. I mean, from what that airport was to what it is today, it's a completely different experience. It's a world class experience. It's a world class airport. So congratulations to you and the team that was involved in that. I want to ask you also about Terminal A at Newark as well, if I could. I live in New Jersey. I go through Terminal A a lot also. I thought what you did with that terminal, kind of making it an advertisement for the state of New Jersey, all the Jersey trivia, the Jersey specific retailers and restaurants, I thought that was brilliant and great for folks that come into New Jersey and a chance to celebrate our great state. When you think of designing a terminal, just that thought of whether it's LaGuardia, whether it's Terminal A in New Jersey, the process of just designing what will go into the terminal, how do you approach that?

Elisabeth:

That's my favorite part to talk about actually. So the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey gave my former team a very clear directive is to make this a New Jersey experience. So I mean the architects and the architecture, the envelope of the building was already there, but we were tasked to really define the interior layout of the commercial spaces, the adjacencies, the number of locations, the allocation of the different categories within the place.

So what we did as a first step, and this is something what I believe was also the differentiator, is really put out a very strong vision and plan on what we want to achieve there. So we called it the Journey of Surprises, which was because we found out so many interesting and fun facts about New Jersey. And everybody even locals said, I didn't know this about New Jersey. That's interesting. And that's kind of the feeling we wanted to bring in. And Newark, same as LaGuardia, has a very big share of returning travelers. So people use this terminal very frequently, sometimes a couple of times per month. So people come back. So we wanted also to make sure that whenever they come back, they find something new that's interesting, that's new, that's challenging them, a new menu or a new product somewhere. And so this was kind of our strategic vision that we then started translating into the design and into the way we put our RFP to market to find partners for the terminal.

Then COVID happened and everything was different. But with this very strong vision, and I know that also LaGuardia here had a similar approach to that. The stronger vision and the strong strategy kind of kept us on track. And you know, when we had to make certain decisions about brands and what fits our vision or what's the digital elements, the digital journey throughout the building, it just helped us guide our decision making.

And we could then build on that. So even if you're, you know, we talk about New Jersey entrepreneurs, we talk about you say you mentioned the trivia. We talked about the different environments New Jersey has to offer. So that was all part of a very solid strategy where we also had the buy-in of our partners from Port Authority to the design architects to our commercial partners. And they were all delivering on the same vision. And that was very satisfying to see because we were all were walking into the same direction. I'm very happy to hear you say that, that you can see that and you can feel that because that means we accomplished that goal.

Tom:

You clearly did. It's pretty cool. It's pretty special. And I I think Terminal A at Newark feels like Jersey. It has a Jersey feel to it. So you hit that. LaGuardia feels like New York. And you hit that moment too. That's what you were aspiring for. You want a major transportation hub that people are coming in from all across the country to get a feel of the community that they're in, right?

Elisabeth:

It's the last thing and the first thing you see, right? You come in through the airport and you leave the city or the region or the country through an airport. So it's the first and last thing that you see and I think that's why we are all very keen on getting this right, to make the airport a real representative of the city and the region and the country it stands for.

Tom:

Yeah. I would think in an airport environment, one of the things we talk about in the shopping center industry is the importance of curating the mix of retailers and offerings within a shopping center. It needs to be reflective of the community upon which the center's in, whether it's a big regional mall or a grocery anchored shopping center. In an airport, you mentioned that you understand who your customers are, like, but how do you approach curation of the mix, you know, how many retailers you have, how many food and beverage offerings you have, what types of retailers, what types of food and beverage you have. How do you think through that in an environment where the folks that are in that terminal every day are different?

Elisabeth:

There are, of course, there are some benchmarks that we that we're using, but in the end it's still every terminal is different. So you really need to figure out what's driving that region, what stands for that region. And something that for me personally is also very important, a brand and a concept should not just be a name at the door. It needs to be the brand needs to be involved. And that's what, you know, what I've always tried to do to keep the actual brands involved. Sometimes you got franchise deals or you got license deals because the people who can do business at an airport are usually a small handful of very large companies who are operating partners and then they work together with local brands. But having this buy-in, making sure that the chef, you know, helps with the menu every three months, maybe the head chef is from the brand. The training is coming through the brand. So to keep the brand involved, to keep the authenticity for me is really key because if it's just a sign at the door, that's also what people will feel, that it's not evolving, it's not part of the real brand. And that I believe is one of the key success factors also to create an authentic experience.

Tom:

You also mentioned it's the first and last thing people experience when they visit somewhere and you want to have some connection or representation for the community upon which the airport sits in, a reflection of New York or New Jersey, which you've done in both of those terminals.

Elisabeth:

Yeah, I think I mean in the end it's all about partnerships, right? You're trying to find the right partners. You're trying to find people who can deliver on your vision, who understand your vision, and then who help you make it through or make it real. And it's important to have this early involvement of partners also because so that they can also tell you what they need. You know, how much kitchen space do you need? How much do you need a centralized kitchen somewhere in the terminal? Terminal usually is a place where space is a very valuable asset. So fitting everything in, fitting in the logistics is usually very difficult. So having partners on board early is very important. And again, this shared vision and also transparency when it comes to bumps in the road. Speaking of COVID, you know, you need to work very closely together and just make sure you have the right partners to help you deliver that.

Tom:

The complexity of just things like bringing material and product into the terminal, given security and to your point around space has to be so complex and well thought through, you have to be limited to the times of the day that you can actually do certain things too.

Elisabeth:

Yes and no. Depends on, you know, how well you plan it. If you have also the delivery corridors, you know, are kind of hidden behind but it doesn't always work because in the end you got this massive infrastructure, transportation hub with lot of people walking around. It's good planning and it's also being able to deliver on a very limited footprint sometimes. Because especially storage space is something at every airport I'm very sure is a very big conversation and a very big discussion point because it's just often not there. Not any good size.

Tom:

We could do a deep dive on that. We could have a whole episode on it.

Elisabeth:

And your access is restricted, that's the major differentiation point. That everything has to be screened. Every water bottle has to be screened that goes into the building, which just adds a whole level of planning and logistics that you don't experience in a traditional retail environment.

Tom:

You had mentioned partnerships earlier, as in related to curation of mix and a terminal. There's also a whole other type of partnership that exists in an airport. This whole public-private partnership, it's kind of a poster child for that. And commercial real estate development, oftentimes there are elements of public-private partnerships that exist as well. How does it work? Just the mechanics of the public ownership, the private management of a terminal or an airport. How does it typically operate from that perspective? Both from when you begin to develop it without having to get into the financial ratios and allocations, but the relationship between government and private enterprise to develop and manage an airport is pretty complex.

Elisabeth:

It's very complex and that's also why you don't see it that often, for example, in the United States. So United States airports are mostly still government or city or county owned. So New York is kind of a little bit of an exemption here. And internationally, of course, you see a lot of public private partnerships. One big learning for me was really so to understand the relationship and also the pressures that you know, the government side and the private side, they operate sometimes in different worlds, I would say. So the government side of course is a lot of pressures that's coming from the political side, from the government side, whereas the private side is more driven by shareholders, by shareholder value, by return, by financial drivers or more business driven drivers. And we just had this discussion a couple of days ago actually, understanding those restrictions on both sides, I think that's very healthy. So that you really have empathy of, what you know what the pressure points and the pain points are of the other side. I think that that's a big learning. And that's if all the partners have learned to walk or to work through that, that's very helpful because it's sometimes the worlds that are coming together just have such different interests in mind. I mean in the end, of course, they want to develop and open up the best possible project and product, but the pressures that they're under are just very, very different. And the earlier you understand the pressures your counterpart is under, I think the more successful the partnership and the collaboration can be.

Tom:

Both sides have an interest in making sure the airport's successful, right? Because that's in the best interest of the local community. Is the model somewhat different internationally than we follow in the U.S.? Is it typically the same kind of general public private partnership, or is there more public or more private in other markets?

Elisabeth:

I think that's very difficult to say. That's dependent by region, but sometimes there are just management contracts that are being bid out. Sometimes it's long term concession. Sometimes the government stays involved to a certain percentage point. So they're very different models, I would say, but the challenges are the same, right? And in the end we're humans. In the end it's humans working together and organizations working together. So I think the challenges are very similar. They might just play out in different dimensions.

Tom:

So as we get close to the end of our time, there's one final topic I wanted to talk about, which is the future. And one of the big conversations that we're having, really in the broad business community in general, is the impact of technology and the impact of artificial intelligence on every industry, including retail and commercial real estate. If I was to 10 years from now land in LaGuardia or fly out of LaGuardia, what might be different? Or in any airport around the country that might be different both from a operational standpoint or from a commercial standpoint than we might be experiencing today.

Elisabeth:

I wish I knew.

Tom:

Right.

Elisabeth:

We all wish we knew the answer to that. What the future holds for us. Yeah, I think just operationally, I think our big conversation is around biometrics, about making travel more seamless so that you don't have those disruptions along the way between check-in, security, waiting for your plane to board. So making this more seamless, that's definitely a big conversation right now. With technology, I think we're still a little bit in the testing phase, what makes sense. And especially for technology, for me, technology must support what you want to do, but it should never be the center of attention. And sometimes we use technology and it becomes all about technology and we forget about that it's actually just the enabling tool to help us deliver convenience, to help us deliver information, to help us deliver a certain product better, faster, nicer, whatever it might be, but it should never be technology at the center of attention. And I think that's why also LaGuardia's approach on hospitality, like putting the human in the center, is a is an approach that our guests will value along the way. Because with having so much technology around you, having this human experience and having a human interaction where you want it, maybe not everybody wants it in the same intensity. So you need to give options but being able to still deliver hospitality, I think, is something that I'm pretty sure we will never give up, despite all technology that we have.

Tom:

Yeah, I think that in in some ways that kind of that human interaction becomes even more important when you live in a highly digital, highly technological world. In the retail world, the one thing that never and I think you're saying the same thing, just human interaction, service. To be a successful retailer 2026, there's some things that are timeless and they were the same in 1926, which is, you know, being a good merchandiser, being good at service, having the right pricing, no matter what channel you're in, no matter what store you're in, those are still really important. And I think the same kind of thought process probably applies in airports as well.

Elisabeth:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially as you mentioned it earlier. It's such an emotional place. You know, you're sending your kid off to college. You're waiting for somebody to come visit you. You're excited before a business meeting. So it there's always a lot of emotion around travel. I'm getting excited when I'm jumping on a plane and I work at airports, so I'm still a little bit nervous. But it's just this very specific atmosphere here and yeah, that's why I believe this will never go away and will also be valued, as you said.

Tom:

That's true. When you think of getting on an airplane, usually, I mean, outside of the business travel that, you know, can become somewhat repetitive in nature, most personal travel, there's some kind of big life moment associated with it. Or you're going on vacation or you're going to a wedding or you're going to go visit family. That's true. And that adds an element of excitement, but also an element of stress too, that has to be thought through as you serve the customer.

Elisabeth:

And that's what the airport also needs to cater to, you know. People buy at the airport, it's more impulse driven. It's not so much a planned purchase. It's more about rewarding yourself after a long week on a on a business trip, for example, or buying a toy for your kid when you get home because you haven't seen them in a couple of days. So there's always a little bit more the purchases are more emotional. And that's what we are trying to get to also, you know, cater for that and make that available.

Tom:

Well, Elisabeth, airports are highly complex. We just scratched the surface on a really fascinating topic. I mean, when you think through all the different steps on just any travel journey from going through security to actually wheels off the ground. But congratulations again on what took place at LaGuardia, what took place at Newark, on a fascinating career. I really appreciated the conversation today and for you sharing your wisdom and knowledge with my listeners.

Elisabeth:

Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure talking to you and sharing a little bit of why I think this is such an exciting industry.

Tom:

Well thank you and thank you to everyone who's listening and thank you, Elisabeth. Thanks for being a guest on From Where I Sit.

Please follow and rate this podcast five stars on Apple and Spotify and share it with others that might find it interesting. Thanks for listening.